[00:00:00] Sarah Stone:
Hello and welcome to Let’s Talk Social Value. My name is Sarah Stone, and today I am here with Ben Carpenter, CEO of Social Value International — a global network working to develop the principles and standards that help organisations account for social value.

From the evolution of the social value movement globally to the ambitious True and Fair project, which is reshaping how we think about value and accountability, Ben’s work sits at the forefront of global change.

[00:00:38] Ben, thank you very much for coming on the podcast.

[00:00:40] Ben Carpenter:
Thanks for having me.

[00:00:41] Sarah Stone:
It’s brilliant to have you. For anyone who isn’t familiar with Social Value International, can you tell us a bit about what it is and what you do?

[00:00:49] Ben Carpenter:
We’re a global network of people who are trying to change the world — specifically, the way the world accounts for value.

Our mission is about broadening how we understand value, so decisions aren’t based purely on economic or financial value, but also on social and environmental value. Ultimately, that’s about enhancing wellbeing and reducing inequality.

We’re a member‑led network with members in over 60 countries, around 30 of which have their own national networks. Social Value International plays a role in bringing those networks together and standardising how we think about and account for social value.

That includes standards, training and accreditation — some quite technical conversations — alongside bigger conversations about how we change systems, policy and regulation, and ultimately rewire the economy.

[00:02:15] Sarah Stone:
That whole idea of accounting for value is what really excites me. Who owns Social Value International? You mentioned members — are they individuals or organisations? And how is it funded?

[00:02:32] Ben Carpenter:
Social Value International is owned by our members — meaning the national networks. Each national network has a vote at our AGM and can nominate people to our board. Those networks are membership‑led themselves, so it’s a pretty democratic governance structure.

In terms of funding, SVI is a charity, but we’ve had no core funding or benefactor money to speak of. We’ve grown slowly through delivering services — membership, training, assurance and accreditation — rather than through grants.

[00:03:41] Sarah Stone:
I assumed you had grant funding or a benefactor.

[00:03:46] Ben Carpenter:
If there are any philanthropists listening who want to help change how businesses account for value — please get in touch.

[00:03:57] Sarah Stone:
You mentioned training, which is something lots of people are looking for. What does SVI offer?

[00:04:05] Ben Carpenter:
Our origins go back to 2007, when we were called the Social Return on Investment Network. From the beginning, we relied on bringing people into the movement through training.

People come on training, join as members, and then progress through what we now call the professional pathway — a set of training courses and assessments leading to accreditation.

Level 1 accreditation was introduced around five years ago and has been very successful, with around 1,200 people accredited globally. We’re now evolving the pathway to help more people progress beyond that initial level.

[00:05:41] Sarah Stone:
What’s the relationship between Social Value International and the Institute for Social Value in the UK?

[00:05:54] Ben Carpenter:
The Institute is our affiliated national network in the UK — essentially the UK chapter. There’s strong alignment on mission, and while they’re in a period of transition, they remain the exclusive provider of SVI’s professional pathway in the UK as long as they’re the national network.

[00:06:56] Sarah Stone:
How is the UK perceived internationally when it comes to social value?

[00:07:36] Ben Carpenter:
The UK has one of the most mature and complex social value landscapes, largely because of having legislation in place for over ten years. That doesn’t mean practice is perfect — there’s still a lot of variation — but social value as a concept is widely understood across sectors here.

In other countries, the same ideas often appear under different language: impact, sustainability, ESG, CSR, or capitals. But fundamentally, it’s about understanding how we affect people’s lives and using that to make better decisions.

[00:08:51] Sarah Stone:
Why does social value seem more private‑sector‑led in places like Taiwan and South Korea?

[00:09:00] Ben Carpenter:
The appeal there is often the language of business. Concepts like the SROI ratio — “for every dollar invested, you generate three dollars of social value” — resonate strongly.

Across the private sector, there’s also growing pressure to change behaviour, manage risk, and build a social licence to operate. Some organisations are more motivated than others, but there is real traction.

[00:10:48] Sarah Stone:
Which countries are doing the most interesting things right now?

[00:10:54] Ben Carpenter:
The world looks to the UK with some envy because of its legislation — though it’s far from perfect. Indonesia, for example, now requires companies to produce SROI reports, which is really exciting.

More broadly, we’re seeing growing momentum around sustainability reporting and impact, and we’re increasingly working with lawyers to influence policy and regulation.

[00:12:09] Sarah Stone:
Tell me more about the True and Fair project.

[00:12:19] Ben Carpenter:
The True and Fair project is our first real attempt to change the rules of the game. We’re looking at policy, regulation and financial accounts themselves.

We’re working with lawyers and accountants to examine directors’ legal duties and the accounting standards that shape what goes into financial statements. There’s a real opportunity now to include sustainability information directly in those statements.

[00:13:30] Sarah Stone:
Who actually decides what goes into financial statements?

[00:13:30] Ben Carpenter:
Financial reports generally follow international accounting standards set by the IFRS Foundation, through the International Accounting Standards Board. Around 150 countries have regulation pointing to IFRS, while the US uses its own — broadly compatible — standards.

Underpinning all of this is the Conceptual Framework for Financial Reporting, which sets out the purpose of accounts and who they’re for.

[00:15:30] Ben Carpenter:
If you read the first dozen paragraphs, you see the problem clearly: financial reporting is framed almost entirely around financial returns.

Paragraph 1.8 says information should meet the needs of the “maximum number of users”. If the majority of users want returns that don’t destroy the planet, increase inequality or cause harm, that premise should be written into the framework.

[00:17:43] Sarah Stone:
That’s genuinely mind‑blowing.

[00:18:06] Ben Carpenter:
We created financial accounting systems — which means we can change them. If we recognise climate and social crises as real, then accounting should reflect that.

[00:18:52] Sarah Stone:
So how are you trying to prove what users actually want?

[00:18:52] Ben Carpenter:
We’ve launched an investor expectations survey with Ipsos across eight countries, targeting retail investors. When given the choice, most people prefer returns that don’t harm people or the planet.

The results will support a wider campaign to update the Conceptual Framework, which hasn’t been revised since 2018.

[00:21:36] Sarah Stone:
What can companies do right now?

[00:21:47] Ben Carpenter:
We commissioned a legal opinion which confirmed directors have a duty to approve accounts as “true and fair” — not just compliant.

That means directors can, and sometimes must, include additional information if it’s material. Some companies are already including notes on climate impacts. At SVI, we’ve gone further by recognising the social cost of carbon as a liability, affecting profit and loss.

[00:25:36] Sarah Stone:
And there’s a strong business case for this too.

[00:25:59] Ben Carpenter:
Absolutely. This is about resilience and long‑term sustainability. Boards respond to numbers — and this lever can drive faster change than separate sustainability reporting that never reaches board‑level decision‑making.

[00:27:07] Sarah Stone:
Thank you so much for joining us.

[00:27:30] Ben Carpenter:
Thank you — and I’d love to come back.

[00:31:41] Sarah Stone:
I’m Sarah Stone, and you’ve been listening to Let’s Talk Social Value. If you found this useful, please share the episode and leave us a review.